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 Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)

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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 2:30


My new addition that i named Genghis Khan Very Happy



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Fabian Dirks
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 3:43

Really a nice one ... Just send me a few
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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 5:22

Interesting... Thank you for posting this, Mr. Palaganas. Could you please tell us a little more about the specimen? (Such as: How did you acquire this snake? Is it wild caught or captive bred? Do you know if it's male or female? How long is it in total length? Could you show us how you have the snake's cage set up?). Just wondering... Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 7:47


a poorly studied endemic kukri snake with a very limited distribution in our country. it's a wild-caught specimen found in between the shoreline and the lush shrubbery further inland. it cannot open it's mouth widely that's why 95% of its diet consists of drinking raw eggs or swallowing small eggs whole then the remaining diet is made-up of either lizards or small toads. the tail is sharpened to a point and is used to break open eggs or in defense (which i learned the hard way lol)

sexual dimorphism in terms of body size, coloration or vent to tip of tail length is virtually impossible to tell. i haven't probed it yet.

the length of the one above is 19 inches. local accounts from the people say they reach a maximum length of 31 inches but the girth of the it's body is interesting. the local people who saw it said that even though it is short, it can be 2.5 inches wide with a 7-inch body circumference. It is quite a docile specimen unlike most snakes i've dealt with.
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Gustav Eloy
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 9:15

interesting very interesting, thanks for the information, and nice specimen too
keep updating on its husbandry requirements
regards
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 22 Jan - 10:00


thanks will do. i hope i can get a couple more so i can start a breeding pair. they kinda eat often though since they 'drink' the egg contents instead of eating the egg with the shell whole.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 23 Jan - 1:23

Hello Nej,

I keep some of the Genus Oligodon here, you are absolutly right that the main diet are reptile eggs. They can open there mouth wide, be shure! I was bitten by such some times, and it was very painfull and bloody! The open there mouth wide, when they eat here mices. WC speciemens acceped very often only eggs as food, but you turn them to mice too. (I prefere).
Put a mice into the egg when you offered thed egg to the snake, mostly they feed the egg and the mices. After a time they will feed also only the mices. I use this method because the fecals are very liquid when they feed on eggs. O. ancorus is not a smal snake, so they can feed rodents very easy. I use this by several species. It works and make things much easyer.

But one point you wrote is very intressting!

,,the tail is sharpened to a point and is used to break open eggs´´

I´ve never seen that a ,,Kukri´´ or anny other snake opend eggs with there tail. For me it is only a tale. Like milk drinking snakes...LOL. Did you personaly observe this behaviour? Anny pictures of this? I will be very intressting. It will be unique in the wolrd of snakes.

The ,,Kukri´´snakes has there name by two large, raser sharp thooth in uper jaw. The shape of this thooth are like a ,,Kukri Knife´´ thats there entymology for the name Kukri.
And this thooth are used to open the eggs, like a saw.

But a very nice nice species do you have there. Did you only keep this single one?

regards

Peter
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 23 Jan - 9:35


thank goodness this sp is a docile one. doesn't even nudge if you touch it but will stick his tail to your hand if you hold it too tight.

i've seen it use the tail but i haven't recorded it yet. i was too excited to have the specimen lol

i think it is too small to feed on mice yet but it did eat a fat gecko last night.

what i love about it is it can eat very often Very Happy
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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Additional...   Fri 25 Jan - 0:50

Of Possible Interest... www.pnas.org/content/108/18/7455.full.pdf+html . Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Fri 25 Jan - 2:22

Hello Mr. Davidson,

unfortunly I can´t open this file. Please send me the name of this ,,Article?´´ mabye I can go to the page and search for it. My Adobe Reader X and also the Adobe Acrobat can´t open this.

regards,

Peter
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Fri 25 Jan - 2:59

Peter, i can open it without problems using Adobe Acrobat. Are you working with the newest updates?
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Peter

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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Fri 25 Jan - 3:16

Hmmm... ? The PDF just opened now for me with no problem... Nonetheless, the title of this essay is: 'Territorial behavior in Taiwanese kukrisnakes(Oligodon formosanus)' by Wen-San Huang, Harry W. Greene, Tien-Jye Chang and Richard Shine. 2011. Hopefully a title search on the home page of: www.pnas.org will provide the link, and if not, please contact me and I'll try to get a copy to you. The paper descibes an insular population of female Oligodon formosanus actively defending a food source( the nest and eggs of Sea Turtles). Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Fri 25 Jan - 7:24


just read it. the taiwanese kukri is aggressive compared to this species. when young, O. formosanus does have the similar red mid-body coloration but it fades away as it matures. it's banded markings are not as pronounced as in O. ancorus. The former also shows semi-social feeding habits whereas O. ancorus is a very solitary animal that likes hiding in sun-laden areas as it appreciates warmth.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Fri 25 Jan - 17:45

Thanks Peter & Mr. Davidson,

@ Peter - yes I have! Mabye a Problem with a Setting in A. Reader?

@ Mr. Davidson - thanks for the Titel, I have this article, this defence behaviour inKukri snakes I know.
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Sat 26 Jan - 0:20


@peter van issem: can i see the oligodon spp u keep?
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Sun 27 Jan - 19:47

Hi Nej,

I will look for some pic´s. But I don´t have them from all species I keep. But the best looking for sure. I will post them later, now I have to work a little bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Sun 27 Jan - 21:04

Ok,
here we are.

This is Oligodon cf. cinereus. A species from northern Vietnam. Lives also in other countrys that bordered Vietnam. Depeicted is a male. Females are more red than the males.



this Oligodon purpurascens is from an Malysian Island on the east coast in the north part. This shows the juvenile coloratin. When they grow up, the contrast will fade a little bit.



this one shows a female of the red form from O. purpurascens, it´s found on a island in the south east of Malaysia, but also on the mailnland in Malysia and Singapur. On the island, only this coloration is distributed, and an other exclusivley red Species, without pattern.



I have to look, if I can find a pic from a juv. one of the last species form. This are more colorfull than the adults!






Last edited by Peter van Issem on Wed 30 Jan - 3:38; edited 1 time in total
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Mon 28 Jan - 0:46


i think we also have the 2nd sp here. not familiar with the 3rd one though. nice kukris btw Very Happy
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Mon 28 Jan - 1:30

Hi Nej,
I´m not sure, but the Philippines have there own herpetofauna, a lot of species are very special and endemic there. Not only Genus level but on species or mabye on subspecies level.
Unfortunly [i] have not the best paperwork over this herpetofauna, I missed the most of them. Specialy the ,,Tayler´´ Snakes of the Philippine Islands ! A lot of stuff we can download, but not all.

Thats the reason I think, you will not have the purpurascens on the Philippines, mabye an other species, thats look similar to them! BTW. some other species looks nearly identical on the first view. fasciolatus, cyclurus, joynsoni p.e. but this not distributed on the Philippines too. and I´m sure a lot of others too.

From the Philippines I know only: Oligodon ancorus (Luzon & Mindoro islands); O. maculatus (Mindanao); O. mayerinkii (Bongao, Jolo, Papahang, Sibutu, Tawi-Tawi); O. modestus (Luzon, Mindanao, Negros, Tablas, Panay); mabye but not sure O. octolineatus (I´m not sure if this is the same species like on mainland Malaysia and Indonesia´s Islands..); O. perkinsi (Culion Islands); a ssp. is O.vertebralis notospilus from (Calamian isl. , Palawan, Busuanga, Balabac, Mindanao) but I will quote for a good species.

This can give you an overview over the species you have there. But like in many other cases - there are surly more than this... time will tell us...

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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 30 Jan - 0:54

i knew we had a lot it's just a matter of finding and identifying them properly. apparently we hve a kukri snake here that resembles one of our local coral snake species that unfortunately bit someone and the victim died.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 30 Jan - 2:58

Mimicry of Coral snakes in Case of Oligodon spec. is wide distributed. Not all Oligodon shows this. But look at C. intestinalis and O. octolineatus and O. trillineatus and a lot of others. Also the behaviuor with lifting up the tail, shares both!
You are absolutly right about the exact identifiying of the differend species, this is the reason you can find some diff. species here in europe under wrong ID´s, and the people has problem s to ID them too. Very important, not only for this, are to know exactly where there has there origin. Snakes with no aditional Datas some times very hard to ID!
On the other hand Oligodon is very variabale not only in case of the genus, in case of species also! If you have some more pictures of Oligodon, feel free to show them Laughing
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Nej Palaganas
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 30 Jan - 10:31

yeah i sure will. so far i think we have 3 oligodon sp that's up in the trade. the rest are just to elusive to be captured hehe. thanks man!
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 5 Feb - 11:10


@peter: did your oligodons ever regurgitated raw eggs after sucking them in? mine seems to have bulimic tendencies
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Tue 5 Feb - 17:58

Not when they have enought time After the Meal to rest and no Stress! When they has Feed , I leave them alone for some days.
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PostSubject: Re: Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)   Wed 6 Feb - 2:58

I never observed a regurgitation of egg at my O. lacroixi and I don't feed them mice. I heard once that feeding them mice can shorten their life significantly, but I don't know if this is true.

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Northern Short-headed Snake (Oligodon ancorus)
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