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 The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)

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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 0:52

Hello everyone, I will get my first Cerastes cerastes recently.I dont know the best substrate for this species.
I intend to use the reptisand,but my friend told me the sand would cause stomatitis because the snake absorb sand into its mouth when eating foods.His suggestion is using newspaper.
I have seen many keepers using sand...So sould I use the reptisand? Is there the hidden trouble of snake eating the sand into its mouth?

Thanks
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 1:01

Hi Guo,

actually I keep and I have keeped Cerastes cerastes, C. vipera and now C. g. gasperettii.
I have use sand every time, I mix only some soil to it, and some gravel. Looks more natural i think. If using newspaper, than only for carantaine. The sankes shows there natural behaviour only, when the can burrow in the Sand! Yes, the will absorb a little bit Sand, but why not?! Other sanke in nature absorb other thinks, and mostly without any problems. I have never problems with desert vipers and Sand.
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 1:39

Haven't seen newspaper in the Tunisian desert.......
These snakes have been living for millions of years on these substrates.
I didn't make bad experiences from what kind ever while keeping Cerastes cerastes and Cerastes vipera on pure quartz sand - these sand is best if you want to enjoy the hiding behavior and the tracks of these snakes...


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Last edited by Peter Zürcher on Tue 18 Dec - 3:20; edited 1 time in total
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Pascal Buri
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 2:25

I keep my female in play sand you can buy in garden retailers for 10 years now. And she seems to feel good. I also feed her only in this substrate and so far never saw any negative impact on her digesting behaviour

Cheers Pascal
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Peter Schilperoord



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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 6:54

Sand, just plain sand.

Although I do use different grain sizes.. very fine sand for Cerastes vipera, because they tend to burrow in it, and somewhat more coarse sand for Cerastes cerastes
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 14:38

Thanks to everyone and the replies!
I would make a natural condition to it.
Bless you and your snakes:)
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 15:12

Peter Schilperoord wrote:
Sand, just plain sand.

Although I do use different grain sizes.. very fine sand for Cerastes vipera, because they tend to burrow in it, and somewhat more coarse sand for Cerastes cerastes

Fine or coarse is another problem,is there something wrong to use fine sand for Cerastes cerastes? C.C seem to burrow too.And what's the difference between Cerastes vipera and C.C?
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Tue 18 Dec - 22:29

Sorry I'm ignorant,
C. vipera = Sahara Sand Viper
C. cerastes = Desert Horned Viper

...but I dont know the differences between C.vipera and C.C, I thought they have the same behaviour.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Wed 19 Dec - 1:37

Hi Guo,
when you google this two species, you will find first some pictures that shows the optical differences. C. vipera is usaly smaler than C. cerastes. Only in some locations, the grow up over 40 cm(vipera). normaly smaler, around 30-35 cm. C. ceratses normaly, over 40 cm. Mabye, in extrem areas, where they can´t find a fully table of food, they will not grow bigger. In my exp. C. cerates grows up easy over 60 cm. I have see an extrem big one in Tunesia, with more than 70-75cm. I´m not sure, but why not bigger than 80cm, in very good food areas!?
You are right, the share some behaviour, but C. vipera is more bound on real Sand & sanddunes. C. cerastes can be found in a lot of differend habitats, also in stone deserts, and other very dry spots too. I´ve never heare that C. vipera lifes there. But, they lifes in some areas simpatric! Both burrow in the sand. The ,,same´´ sidewinding movement. My C. ceratses and C.g.gasperetti digg also complete in the sand. But I have had some from Egypt (C. cerastes), they has never digg complete down! I know from a friend a form of C. cerastes, that comes from Morocco, this ceratses was from a real stone desert, not place to digg no Sand around!
Real Horn´s you will find only in C. ceratses and g. gasperettii not in C. vipera & C.g. mendelsoni! C. boehmei don´t have real horns, more like warts on the top of the head. C. vipera is more a Lizzard feeder than C. cerastes, that likes rodens very much. But, also here you will find exceptions! All what I wrote is not a law, more pers. experience.



Last edited by Peter van Issem on Wed 19 Dec - 2:44; edited 1 time in total
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Martti Niskanen
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Wed 19 Dec - 2:23

Just a minor point a bit off topic. You can use normal sand you find around or sand-blasting sand. No point paying extra for ReptiSand.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Wed 19 Dec - 2:29

@ Martti : yes I use this too. Here I remove it from a ,,inland dune´´ where our military ,, play´s war´´ I do not use industrial sand, this is to sharp edged in my opinion.

@ Guo: for more information you can use the Cerastes section! Peter has updated this with some more papers! Have a look.
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Daniel Quinton
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Wed 19 Dec - 11:46

Calcisand does not cause stomatitis, it can be safely eaten so its no big deal if the snake ingests some. You can get it at any Petco, and it comes in all different colors if you are into that kind of thing - even glow in the dark!
I personally use crushed walnut as the substrate for my Cerastes and it works great for me. Its very natural looking, and the snake can ingest small amounts of it with no problem.
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Wed 19 Dec - 21:22

@Martti: Thank you,I saw many kinds of sand in fish shops,I think they are applicative:)

@Daniel: Thank you,I wouldl rest assured to use the sand for substrate!I saw a man named viperkeeper on youtube.com also used crushed walnut for Ceraste.

@Peter: Hello Peter! Thank you for describing habits of the two species to me! Im
willing to learn that.I heard the rule of animals:bigger animals go with the lower heat dissipation than their smaller same kinds, so I thought these desert snakes don't grow too much large.Now I know the pets I will get are C.C ,and are there any difficulties to breed the species? I hesitate whether to get a pair of them.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Thu 20 Dec - 1:05

Hi Guo,
NO, there is no larger probelm to breed them. When you know where your snakes comes from, it will be easy. You have to give them chance for a hibernation, it depend on there origin how long and cold you have to doe this. I use my cellar for this. 6-8 weeks for around 10-12 °C is enougth!
Some breeders do not make a real hibernation. They switch only the light and heating off, let them inside there Terrarium and wait some weeks. This works also in some cases. You has to give them a try.
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Sat 22 Dec - 3:16

Peter van Issem wrote:
Hi Guo,
NO, there is no larger probelm to breed them. When you know where your snakes comes from, it will be easy. You have to give them chance for a hibernation, it depend on there origin how long and cold you have to doe this. I use my cellar for this. 6-8 weeks for around 10-12 °C is enougth!
Some breeders do not make a real hibernation. They switch only the light and heating off, let them inside there Terrarium and wait some weeks. This works also in some cases. You has to give them a try.

Thanks to tell me that. I think there are some problems to solve . My place is subtropical ,the climate is unstable.Some times the temperature is too high in winter(higher than 20 °C).I'm afraid the snake cant get a perfect hibernation...anyway, I will take care to keep it.And...could I get advice from you that how to select a nice snake from retailer? Thanks
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Sat 22 Dec - 17:54

Hi Guo,
ok, it looks, like you can´t hibernate them in a cellar or in a similar way. But, how it looks to hibernate them in Fridge? Someone here makes this with there european vipers or north american Crotalids! The only what do you are looking for is, don´t set the temperatures to low!

How you can select a ,,nice´´ snake? Only by viewing. But I´m sure to know what do you mean. It it the same like in anny other snakes too. Take a look on the snake, is it heavy enought? Shows it typical behaviour ? Tongue flicking? Mouth & cloaca ok and clean? Scales and shope looks good? No noise when the sankes breath!? I think, no diference to other snakes too!

BTW: is there in China a retailer that offers Cerastes? I wonder...
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Mon 24 Dec - 0:29

Peter van Issem wrote:
Hi Guo,
ok, it looks, like you can´t hibernate them in a cellar or in a similar way. But, how it looks to hibernate them in Fridge? Someone here makes this with there european vipers or north american Crotalids! The only what do you are looking for is, don´t set the temperatures to low!

How you can select a ,,nice´´ snake? Only by viewing. But I´m sure to know what do you mean. It it the same like in anny other snakes too. Take a look on the snake, is it heavy enought? Shows it typical behaviour ? Tongue flicking? Mouth & cloaca ok and clean? Scales and shope looks good? No noise when the sankes breath!? I think, no diference to other snakes too!

BTW: is there in China a retailer that offers Cerastes? I wonder...

Thank you:) Yes there are some retailers offer Cerastes,Gaboon adders,puff adders,Crotalids,spitters and Wagleris. The snakes came from Europe or their sourcelands,just like Red-tailed Boas and other pet snakes.But a few retailers can sell the vemous-snakes,I think the snakes were imported in HongKong.A few days ago,I heard someone bought a black mamba...

About fridge...I knew a guy put a pair of Vipera ammodytes into it.Maybe I will try it.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Mon 24 Dec - 1:08

Ok Guo,
keep us updated how it works! For ammodytes and a lot of the smaler european vipers it works very good! Constand temperatures and humidity!
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Liang Guo
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Sat 29 Dec - 4:38

Peter van Issem wrote:
Ok Guo,
keep us updated how it works! For ammodytes and a lot of the smaler european vipers it works very good! Constand temperatures and humidity!

Remember your suggestions!
Do you think the C.C which imported are CB or WC? I think there were not so many BC young snakes been have born very year, Although the retails told me all the C.C were BC.
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: The substrate of sahara horned viper...(Cerastes cerastes)   Sat 29 Dec - 6:49

When your retailer got them directly from a sorce in northern Africa, I´m sure there will be WC. If he got his stuff from Europe ot the US, it can be that they will be CB, why not. Cerastes cerastes is not hard to breed, a lot of people that works with them over years will have breedings for sale. I´m not sure about the sorces from your retailer, mabye he swop something with others!?
If he buy his snakes directly from Egypt (this is the major exporter for Cerastes cerastes) I´m sure for 100% that they will be WC animals.
Offfers you shop smal ones? Or only adults? Mostly the Wc are bigger ones. When I was visited a Importer he, and he opened the shipments we found nearly only adult WC snakes. I´m not sure why this is, but mabye it is more hard to find the smaler ones or the smaler will not surrive for a long time at the stock before they will shipped to the coustomers.
Snakes with more bodymass can live longer without food and water than juveniles!
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