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 Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?

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Navreet Notey
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PostSubject: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 6:07

Hi, are the West African Gab's Bitis rhinoceros or Bitis gabonica rhinoceros?

I see both written, and just wanted it cleared up. I thought it was Bitis rhinoceros initially until someone told me different..

If it is just Bitis rhinoceros, then it is still considered a Gaboon?

Thanks.
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Denis de Gruchy
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 14:10

Hi Navreet

Bitis gabonica,Gaboon viper. and there is a subspecies Bitis gabonica rhinoceros,West African gaboon viper.

B.gabonica has smaller horns where B.g rhinoceros has enlarged horns.

correct me if me wrong .
hope i could help

regards
Denis
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Dillon Haining
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 15:00

I am positive that it is Bitis Rhinoceros, and that is was removed from the Bitis Gabonica subspecies classification due to the differences between both Bitis Gabonica and Bitis Rhinoceros.

I hope this helps,
-Dillon
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Martti Niskanen
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 15:49

Denis de Gruchy wrote:

correct me if me wrong .

Why reply if you're not sure?

B. gabonica & B. rhinoceros. No recognised subspecies.
Lenk, P., H.-W. Herrmann, U. Joger, & M. Wink (1999) Phylogeny and taxonomic subdivision of Bitis (Reptilia: Viperidae) based on molecular evidence. Kaupia, 8: 31-38.
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 16:09

There are more genetic differences between gabonica and rhinoceros than between both of'em and Bitis nasicornis.

here's the paper of Lenk et al.
http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/institute/fak14/ipmb/phazb/pubwink/1999/7.%201999.pdf

this one could be interesting too:
http://www.kingsnake.com/aho/pdf/menu2/lenk2001.pdf

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Denis de Gruchy
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 18:44

Martti Niskanen wrote:
Denis de Gruchy wrote:

correct me if me wrong .

Why reply if you're not sure?

B. gabonica & B. rhinoceros. No recognised subspecies.
Lenk, P., H.-W. Herrmann, U. Joger, & M. Wink (1999) Phylogeny and taxonomic subdivision of Bitis (Reptilia: Viperidae) based on molecular evidence. Kaupia, 8: 31-38.

Hi Martti

Thanks for correcting me. I am here to learn from the best.
Was just trying to help.
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Navreet Notey
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 19:02

Thanks for the help guys! Will take a look at the papers Peter has provided.

What is the common name for Bitis rhinoceros then? Is it still just a West African Gaboon Viper?

For some reason many people aren't aware that it is Bitis rhinoceros, a post on a UK forum in the past few days also has it labelled as gabonica rhinoceros - which is why i kept on getting confused.

Thank you.
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Martti Niskanen
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 19:29

Navreet Notey wrote:

What is the common name for Bitis rhinoceros then? Is it still just a West African Gaboon Viper?

Here we come across the problem of common names. Can't call it the rhino viper and it's not really a gaboon. A good example of the importance of using scientific names.
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Navreet Notey
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Mon 24 Sep - 19:35

Martti Niskanen wrote:
Navreet Notey wrote:

What is the common name for Bitis rhinoceros then? Is it still just a West African Gaboon Viper?

Here we come across the problem of common names. Can't call it the rhino viper and it's not really a gaboon. A good example of the importance of using scientific names.

For sure, i always use scientific names. But when you're talking to an ordinary leyman who knows nothing about snakes, the latin will make no sense.

I have seen people suggest it be called the Rhinoceros viper...but that clashes with nasicornis.
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Trey Keyes
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Sun 27 Apr - 10:54

Confused on the subgenera. Should we refer to them as macrocerastes in place of bitis now?
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Sun 27 Apr - 16:05

http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/institute/fak14/ipmb/phazb/pubwink/1999/7.%201999.pdf

If you think the Bitis section should be divided in several subgenera (some people do, some others do not), you should use Macrocerastes for gabonica, rhinoceros, nasicornis and parviocula.

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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Tue 29 Apr - 0:01

Thanks Peter. So then, if we are going to refer to east and west African Gaboons as seperate species ( gabonica and rhinoceros) and not as subspecies ( g. gabonica and g. rhinoceros) based on the above publication, then should we not also use the new subgenera also suggested by that very same publication?

I bring this up because I see several people correcting others on the use of ssp. for these two.. If we are going to correct for one thing then we need to correct for both. IMHO
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Bitis rhinoceros or gabonica rhinoceros?   Tue 29 Apr - 2:57

While there is given strong evidence to treat gabonica and rhinoceros as different species, this evidence seems not being that clearly present in the question of dividing Bitis into subgenera or not. If it would be, we probably would have taxonomic papers suggesting different genera, not subgenera for the Bitis section.

I almost never see hobbyists use subgenera, even scientist rarely use them.

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