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 A. c. pictigaster

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Patrick Hans



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Number of posts : 3
Age : 26
Location : NRW;Germany
Points : 2199
Registration date : 2011-11-16

PostSubject: A. c. pictigaster   Sat 25 Aug - 23:03

Hello everyone,

I have a question. I have got an pictigaster copperhead and I think itīs a male. But I want your opinion to know.





Thank you.

Greetings from Germany

Patrick
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Mats Olsson
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Location : Sweden
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Sun 26 Aug - 0:18

Hi its looks like a male the tale is long.
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Clark Fox
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Sun 26 Aug - 0:55

Patrick

I dont tkink that is a pictigaster. Looks to be A.C. contortrix, southern copperhead.

Clark Very Happy
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Rainer Fesser
Systematicus
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Number of posts : 565
Age : 67
Location : Austria
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Registration date : 2008-03-13

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Sun 26 Aug - 3:58

Hello Patrick,
I agree with Clark, that is not a pictigaster, rather a southern copperhead or maybe at some time a pictigaster has been mixed in.

I think youīre right about the sex.

Regards,
Rainer
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Kevin Kleinberger
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Sun 26 Aug - 10:17

Hi Patrick,
seems to be a male, but I even think itīs looking more like a Contrix-contrix, maybe itīs a hybrid.
At the moment there ae many hybrids on the market... thatīs cruel.
Best regards Kevin
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Peter Schulze Niehoff
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Sun 26 Aug - 16:56

Surely male - but definitely no Trans-Pecos-Copperhead (which in my eyes is the most impressive subspecies of A. contortrix).

Sorry

Peter
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Rainer Fesser
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Age : 67
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Registration date : 2008-03-13

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 4:03

Hello Peter,

"Trans-Pecos-Copperhead (which in my eyes is the most impressive subspecies of A. contortrix)." - I absolutely agree!!!
And he is also the copperhead with the highest chance to get a bite from - greedy or in defence.
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Patrick Hans



Male
Number of posts : 3
Age : 26
Location : NRW;Germany
Points : 2199
Registration date : 2011-11-16

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 4:09

Hello everyone,

thank you for your help. I bought this one as a pictigaster but the "pictigaster-colour" is missing, isnīt it?

How can I identify which subspecies it is? Or is the only way to ask the offerer?

Greetings

Patrick
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Kevin Kleinberger
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 4:19

Hi
In my opinion this is a very, very difficult situation to find this out.
I would contact the offerer and try to clear the situation.
But if you bought it as an clearly Pictigaster, i would also ask why he did this. He just had to tell you that this male must be an hybrid
Best regards
Kevin
some of this Snake(sellers) have to stay in prison.... thatīs cheat!!!!!!!
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Laszlo Livo
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Number of posts : 8
Age : 37
Location : Hungary
Points : 1943
Registration date : 2012-08-02

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 5:34

For Agk. c. contortrix the crossbands should be more narrow on the top of the back.

For me it looks Agk. c. phaeogaster. Are the crossbands connected with the belly markings?
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Clark Fox
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 8:40

Phaeogaster would have the crossbands outlined in a faint white line, could be a cross.

Clark Very Happy
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Ben Stupavsky
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 13:30

Definitely not pure pictigaster, although this individual seems to have a little bit of pictigaster or at least laticinctus blood in it. Pretty animal though. Here's a pure pictigaster I caught last month, for reference:



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Laszlo Livo
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 15:21

Clark:
I see a thin white line on the photos, hope it's not an illusion. Smile
If I counted good the crossbands are 3-5 scales wide on the top which fits Gloyd and Conant's description for phaeogaster. In laticinctus it should be 6-8 scales, in pictigaster 5-12, in mokasen 3-4, and 2 in contortrix.

It would be interesting to see the belly.
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Clark Fox
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Mon 27 Aug - 21:17

I have seen Osage which fall into the scale count of Southerns and vice versa. I live in a state where both species ore found and know that they interbreed along the line of intergradition. I would say a cross but would like to see a belly photo also.

Clark Very Happy
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Twan van Berge
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Tue 28 Aug - 2:25

nice male you have.
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Patrick Hans



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Age : 26
Location : NRW;Germany
Points : 2199
Registration date : 2011-11-16

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Wed 29 Aug - 8:03

Good evening guys,

here are the photos of itīs belly, i hope their good enough:





Thank you very much guys!

Patrick
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Clark Fox
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Wed 29 Aug - 22:51

I would say that you have a cross between contortrix, pictigaster and possibialy phaeogaster. Nice animal but not pure subspecies.

Clark Smile
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Rainer Fesser
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Number of posts : 565
Age : 67
Location : Austria
Points : 4135
Registration date : 2008-03-13

PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Thu 30 Aug - 2:56

Hello Patrick,

I agree with Clark. But at least you got a copperhead that is partly (genetically) pictigaster, so you havenīt totally been lied to. But I think that wonīt comfort you very much.
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Laszlo Livo
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Number of posts : 8
Age : 37
Location : Hungary
Points : 1943
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PostSubject: Re: A. c. pictigaster   Thu 30 Aug - 4:20

It looks I need to stand in the line after Clark and Rainer. Smile
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