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Dear Venomland Members and Friends, Venomland is a little more than 6 years old now and by far the biggest Hot Snake community on the Planet! We want to thank all of you who made Venomland the leading Board. We are also very thankful to our Moderators and Admins for years of hard work. Now, it is time to move on. I have been thinking how to proceed and what to do with our beloved board as we reach a size, that we need to make drastic changes to secure the future of our community. As of now, Venomland is hosted by a free (well mostly free) hosting service. That was good for the first years but now we need to find a new way to run our forum. I have spend hundreds of Dollars over the years to keep Venomland up and running, and i have done so with pleasure. Now, we need your help! We need to come up with several thousand dollars for our Venomland 2.0 project, which i frankly cant pay for any longer by myself. So Venomland is asking his Friends and Members for the first time for their financial Support. Please help to keep Venomland alive, and let us move on to a new, better Portal in the Future! Every Dollar is helping us a great deal. I know, its hard times for everyone, but please spare a few Dollar for our community. If you have only 10 Dollars to spare, we are grateful, if it is more, it would be awesome. We are planning to develop a very new Venomland, with real community functions, a forum like you are already loving it and a real (online) Hot Snake Magazin. Also, there will be download areas for scientific papers, Wallpapers and more. Again folks, we can only do that if you all help. Please send me a Private Message if you want to keep Venomland alive, i will provide you with the details on how to donate Money. For now, we can accept money from creditcards via skrill (please google it, its a free service - account-details will be forwarded to you) and paypal. All the best, and for a (hopefully) nice future of our Board. Mario

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Jorg Schenkels
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Mon 28 Nov - 2:55

i post this by naja why is my post removed to photography ??????
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 8:20

Thanks James

I do not understand this post being switched to "photography" either. Jorg receives his snakes and shows them to everyone and talks about how much he likes them, that they are CB animals, and hopes to get some females this coming year. He talks about one being shy but they both ate. Then he shows photos of siamensis that just bred. That is NOT just photography.

If that is way it is now, any post with a photo will be in "photography". I reckon you have to be discussing scale counts, something very technical for the moderator to consider it something than other just photography. Maybe he can explain, and then explain why every other post of the same type have not been moved to photography.
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Ro vd Bergh
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 9:04

Yeah, I don't care too much where I have to post but I still need to know why I should post what where. It's also often that people ask questions about the animals shown and sometimes a topic turns into usefull information. Nobody will look for info about a snake in the photograph section so I don't know what would be the best option but now it's a bit unclear...?

Cool snakes mate!

Cheers, Ro.
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 16:17

Maybe someone doesn't want people seeing this post for some reason. I have to admit, I do not go to the "Photography" section very often. So putting it there would keep many people from seeing it, unless they happen to see it in the "Portal". I would rather talk about different aspects of snakes, while looking at photos of them. Not just look at a bunch of photos. Who is responsible for moving posts where they want to move them?
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Ro vd Bergh
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 17:48

Okay, I will go with the flow and post it here...

I basically just asked why and in a normal way but that won't be answered...?

Cheers, Ro.
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 21:53

Still no answer from the Moderator on why he feels a discussion about Naja sumatrana and Naja siamensis belongs in the photography section. It looks like he thinks this is HIS forum now and no one else has a right to ask a legitimate question. Sooo Sad. Venomland was once a great place. Hopefully Mario will come back and straighten it out, before it completey dissolves.
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Fri 9 Dec - 23:27

I won't waste my time justifying myself for such worldshaking problems like moved topics.
Further on, i won't waste my time participating on personal attacks - sorry gentlemen.
I don't see a real, valuable discussion in that topic, only pictures and smalltalk, therefore -> photography-section.
I moved dozens of topics from the genus sections to Photography in the last few months......

Further personal attacks and assumptions will be deleted.
Thank You!

Peter


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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 5:21

Just asking why your moving things all of a sudden. It makes it harder for people find certain topics. If someone wants to look for posts concerning Naja siamensis, common sense would tell them to look in the "Naja" section, unless they only wanted to see photos, then maybe look in photography. If someone goes to a zoo and takes a bunch of photos of snakes at the zoo, they should go in the photography section, but when someone is talking about their own specific animal or two, that they just received, how it is eating, hoping to get some females this year so eventually they can breed them, there's no reason for that to go in the photography section as it is definitely not just a photo.

personal stuff removed by admin
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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 7:39

Amen to that Randy!

Why is the last part of Randy's post removed? I think it clarifies the whole situation here at Venomland. This was the only international forum where I still came back because I really liked it overhere. Good pictures, good conversations, a joke was appreciated and overall there was a great vibe!

The last few months or maybe the last year the whole vibe dropped and to me it looks like the only visible modeator/admin is Peter Zürcher now. At first I liked him a lot and he had good knowledge about snakes. But now it looks like he and a few friends are king overhere and no other opinion is good, only theirs. Also to me it looks like Peter isn't enjoying it anymore here at Venomland... And to me it looks like that that is the reason what is bringing the vibe down here.

Maybe time for new or maybe more moderators?

At last I want to say that at the beginning I really liked Peter, but now I have some problems with the way he (and even more some friends of him) acts Sad
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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 14:05

Stefan Anthonijsz wrote:
Amen to that Randy!

Why is the last part of Randy's post removed? I think it clarifies the whole situation here at Venomland. This was the only international forum where I still came back because I really liked it overhere. Good pictures, good conversations, a joke was appreciated and overall there was a great vibe!

The last few months or maybe the last year the whole vibe dropped and to me it looks like the only visible modeator/admin is Peter Zürcher now. At first I liked him a lot and he had good knowledge about snakes. But now it looks like he and a few friends are king overhere and no other opinion is good, only theirs. Also to me it looks like Peter isn't enjoying it anymore here at Venomland... And to me it looks like that that is the reason what is bringing the vibe down here.

Maybe time for new or maybe more moderators?

At last I want to say that at the beginning I really liked Peter, but now I have some problems with the way he (and even more some friends of him) acts
I think that Mr. Zurcher does an excellent job as a Moderator on this web site. If you or any other like minded folks have been consistently unhappy with this site then perhaps you should find another forum where you can communicate more effectively with your peers. I agree with Mr. Zurcher that personal attacks are inappropriate in an adult discussion and/or on an adult forum. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 14:57

Thanks Stefan,

I sent you and Ro the complete post because I figured Peter would delete the most important part of the post. It tells the complete story. Anyone else that would like to see my complete post, can PM me or better yet, email me at venomstreet@aol.com, that way the moderator can not delete the PM's.

As you stated Stefan, the title is Moderator/Admin NOT Dictator. But this place has been run that way for a while and that is the cause of it going down hill. If the moderator doesn't agree with you, you are wrong, and he and his minions will trash talk you, your post may be moved where it is harder for people to find it, or possibly be deleted, especially if it tells the truth.

Some people are jealous and they let their jealousy take control of their mind.

Pathetic
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 15:06

I didn't originally see Jon Daviidson's post because I blocked him for obvious reasons. As one of the Moderators two favorite minions, his posts are part of the problem. He worships the ground the King of Snakedom walks on.
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 17:42

It's enough now, Mr. Ciuros.
Your repeated attacks on a team member and other, partially unnamed people, including insulting a team member of "deleting PM's" (what's impossible by the way) and "trash talking" cannot be taken longer - it's just "bringing the vibe down here".
Before you start additional attacks (maybe i eat lttle children?), i'm gonna pull the safety break.
Feel free to distribute your "truth" and to establish your revolution wherever you like to.

User temporarily banned.

and to others:
Be careful dealing with these things and with "your" forum generally. I don't need an admin seat to be happy, and i could use the time i need to manage everything here (at least one hour daily) more effective.
Everyone who doesn't like me or my work/style should feel free to contact the owner and to apply himself for a team job.

I'm very disappointed - i opened a thread to give you all the possibility to discuss in an adult, factual manner about moving of topics and how we should handle these increasing photo-posts.
That has turned out as impossible, and i've been called a dictator.....

But anyway, i do not see that single moved topic as the real reason for an uproar like this.......could it be an excuse for starting a smear campaign in order to muzzle a critical voice?
Just have a look at some recent threads - and know about the rope teams....

regards
Peter



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Last edited by Peter Zürcher on Sun 11 Dec - 1:06; edited 1 time in total
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James Shepherd
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 18:20

I just mentioned the fact that my post was moved cause i’m new to posting topics and thought i might have done something wrong on my end. I posted it to the naja forum cause i have many friends on there and try to keep up with them and wanted to show one of my breeding projects for this year and get any input i could. I think it’s kinda of silly to ban randy. I kinda felt maybe cause i didn’t put some long drawn out txt about the animals that it was looked at as not deserving enough. feels a little elitist on here. Rolling Eyes
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Dexter Bressers
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 18:39

Well, its pretty obvious that some things don't change not even in 10 years time! Razz
Forum disputes are pretty much a thing of all times and can not be avoided so the best thing to do is sit them out.

On the other hand, I do see the point that Randy is trying to make here and his frustration concerning the answer given to him by the Admin.
Especially because the answer is merely stating that the topic was filled with smalltalk and that's that.
To prevent things like this from happening in the future it might be advisable to post a sticky explaining the ground rules for posting on each subforum.
And for me the most important question which should be addressed in such a sticky is: Where is the line between smalltalk and scientific discussion?
We should all remember that we share the same passion but always from within our own knowledge which is very divers. Wink

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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 20:02

James Shepherd wrote:
I just mentioned the fact that my post was moved cause i’m new to posting topics and thought i might have done something wrong on my end. I posted it to the naja forum cause i have many friends on there and try to keep up with them and wanted to show one of my breeding projects for this year and get any input i could. I think it’s kinda of silly to ban randy. I kinda felt maybe cause i didn’t put some long drawn out txt about the animals that it was looked at as not deserving enough. feels a little elitist on here. Rolling Eyes

In my eyes ofcourse you didn't do anything wrong Smile It is the most obvious place to place pictures and discuss things about those snakes. I don't care much about photography so I mostly check the Elapids section and sometimes the Crotalus/Sistrurus. I am not going to look for cobras in the photgraphy section if there are also a lot of other species I am not interested in. Makes it hard to find interesting stuff. And often the most interesting topics started with only pictures and the "not apreciated smalltalk".

personal insults removed.
and if you need warnings: please discuss about the given topic and in an adult, civilised manner, otherways it's gonna be closed here!


And Peter I'd love to apply for a place in the Venomland team! Do I need to PM Mario or should I email him? What is the best way to reach him? Smile Love this website, but would like to see a few things changed Smile
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Dexter Bressers
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 22:18

To get a discussion going, it is of the utmost importance to stay focused on the topic of a thread.
After all, that is why this thread was opened by the Admin (Peter) in the first place....to get a discussion going on how and foremost why the thread of Jorg Schenkels was moved to another sub-forum.
In this case it is almost inevitable that the Admin (Peter) is then going to be criticized in this thread because of what he did with the thread of Jorg Schenkels.

Having extended experience as a Mod/Admin, I know that some people will not hesitate to criticize everything that you do in that capacity and by doing so will probably vent some frustration about other matters as well.
It takes a bit of an elephants skin to deal with that and a lot of diplomacy to prevent being seen as a guy who dictates his will upon the forum members even if you are right.
I have read all posts in this topic before they were moderated and I must say that I did not see a level of personal insults that was totally inappropriate.
But that is my point of view and not necessarily that of Peter of course. Wink

Getting back on-topic I would like to give some more input on what I said earlier.
Having been a passionate snake keeper for many years I have extended my knowledge about these animals mostly on a hands-on (pun intended) basis and by talking to other enthusiasts.
Sure, I read a lot of books (internet was virtually non-existing in my early years) and later on I found some great websites with helpful information.
At a certain point, I even made my own website to share what knowledge I had at that time and I got a lot of kudos for it.
I was there when the SHHS site was being born and Allen Hunter had his Venom 101 site online, both sites which helped a lot of enthusiasts getting to be better snake keepers.

In all my years of keeping snakes I also got to meet many fellow enthusiasts in person and some educated people too. Cool
For example, when I first met Wolfgang Wüster and took him to my place he was flabbergasted when he saw my D. polylepis enclosure.
And he started asking me questions on my husbandry techniques and why I had made certain decisions regarding those techniques.
Of course I felt honored that someone like Wolfgang was asking me things about my animals and husbandry, because I knew that he was far more knowledgeable than me.
But even though he could talk extensively about the natural habitat and genetic varieties of D polylepis, he did not know much about keeping these snakes at home in a big enclosure.

The point I'm trying to make is that we all are able to learn from each other as long as there is an open communication exchange between enthusiasts and professionals.
So, I ask again: where is the line between smalltalk and scientific discussion?
Or is it better not to make that distinction and let our visitors decide for themselves if a topic is interesting enough to reed and reply in or not?
Isn't the whole point of a forum to exchange information and when someone is feeding false or incorrect information, that he/she will be corrected by other visitors who are able to tell it how it is?

I hope that my input will get the discussion going in this topic, because it seems that there is some friction slowly bubbling up and that is not good for any forum.
It would be a shame to see a great forum like this slowly die a silent death because of such a thing.


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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 22:23

Did you take that as a personal insult Peter? I am not trying to insult people... But now you removed that part and to everyone who didn't read what I said allready, it looks like I really was insulting you.

I only asked if it is possible overhere to ban people without first giving an official warning and the other question was if someone could please give me a link to the board rules because I really would like to read them Smile I tried to find them but I didn't succeed to...

Maybe it is possible to split this topic too because I don't want to go offtopic too much but I think it is ok to talk about these things.

Also again the question is, what is the best way to reach Mario? I'd love to apply for a function as moderator here Smile I love this forum and I really like most of the members.

Cheers!
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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sat 10 Dec - 22:27

Great post Dexter! You nailed it!
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Jan Jonkman
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 0:22

Stefan Anthonijsz wrote:
Great post Dexter! You nailed it!

You nailed it big time...

Do YOU have an hour or so to do some moderating every day? Cool
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 1:01

out of the board rules:
" all exchanges of informations and all postings has to be done with respect for the others. "

"every single violation will be charged with banning the violator from the board. of corse, some statements will be controverse, but with respect. no personal attacks, no unprofessional statements."

Sorry gents. but i don't have more time yet, i had some educational meetings at my zoo this afternoon, and tonight is icehockey time.

The posting of Dexter isn't that bad, even if i do not agree everywhere, but it's written factual, friendly and with respect.
regards
Peter

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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 1:08

I asked for a link to the board rules, not for citations of two lines.
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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 1:43

I don't know what happened to you the last year, but you aren't objective anymore... As a moderator/admin you can't be subjective like you are acting now.

Also people are asking you questions but you don't reply to it. Why is that?
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Markus Oulehla
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 2:15

Board rules: Index --> IMPORTANT:
Welcome to Venomland
3rd paragraph and futher... Wink

regards






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Stefan Anthonijsz
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PostSubject: Re: Moving topics   Sun 11 Dec - 2:22

Thanks a lot Markus!
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