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 Vipera ammodytes male 2011

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pierre-yves vaucher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 2:53

1 = female, 2 = male, 3 = female.... otherwise three are trans !!!!
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 2:58

Pierre-Yves, you are right, but i thing this one is not the number 1 or 3 ............ Laughing



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pierre-yves vaucher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 3:07

j'en sais rien... par contre, David, tu vas faire quoi de la repro ??? Il y en a pléthore sur le marché....
I don't know ... David, what you gonna do the repro?? There are a plethora on the market ....
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Tiberiu Sahlean
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 3:26

If this is number 3 it means I was wrong, as no. 3 looks female from the tail. Light color for a female and very contrated to the overall background. Is the picture taken using flash?
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 19:11

1. female
2. male
3. female, holding it in my hands and looking at it from different sides would bring more certainty.

Judging from shape I am sure about 1 and 2, almost sure about 3, counting SC´s, I´m sure about all 3, SC-numbers are typical for female / male V. a. ammod. from that area..

Rainer


Last edited by Rainer Fesser on Tue 9 Aug - 1:35; edited 1 time in total
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Grégoire Meier
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Mon 8 Aug - 21:46



This is another picture, the limit of acceptance, but perhaps it helps with perspective a bit 'different




So to speak and remove doubts, perhaps the photo of the mother helps to understand the color of the little that puts so many doubts.
Photos of my group of females. The mother is gray with brown desig, rolled up with female Orange.




The mother before giving birth




My english is very bad!!! No
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 1:44

Hello Gregoire,

the son of that grey female is beautiful and his pattern is very unusual but possible for Lake Skutari-Ammodytes. That was the reason why I asked David whether he was sure about the location, not doubt about your animals.

The photo of the tail in your last post brings last clearness about the gender - female.

You don´t have to apologize about your English, I think.

Cheers,
Rainer
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 4:24

So: So sorry Greg ! Wink
Yes, this adult female is very uncomon ! A beautifull one as well !
Sorry for the doubt !
Nice evening my friend !
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pierre-yves vaucher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 5:57

and this little one, with contrasted pattern, without on the head, from central Croatia, male or female ?

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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 5:58

Male.
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pierre-yves vaucher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 6:22

Are you sure ? pu...rée j'ai tjs des doutes....

You can follow others pics on:

http://www.venomland.net/t4497-croatia-may-2010-may-2011
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 6:28

oué, mais là, les liens sont trop vagues...tu as pas un lien direct?
Do you have a direct link of this specimen?
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pierre-yves vaucher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 6:37

c'est le lien direct sur mon trip report, tu as 2 clics à faire, rien de vague, que du précis.
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Grégoire Meier
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 15:39

Ok, no problem!
I'm just surprised that a connoisseur of vipers can give a categorical opinion only with a photo.
Thank you for the clarification!
I love you
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Tue 9 Aug - 21:41

We might play this game - male-female forever with photos showing an animal without its tail or even showing the tail from a view that doesn´t show the difference clearly, especially in juveniles. There are a number of males looking like females and vice versa.
The photo shows an adult V.a.ammodytes from South-Central Croatia, cb, 6 years old, 85 cm. long, that I would have called a male at first glance though I have seen more than 1000 V.a.a. (wc. and cb.) from that location. I wasn´t sure about her sex until I checked her tail after she was born and checked it again and again later because it was hard to believe it´s not a male. SHE had babies several times up to now, none of them looking like she does. The photo was taken when she was gravid.



Gregoire: My doubt was NOT directed towards you, I did not know where the animal came from and there are people around that sell hybrids as animals from a special location because they would not be able to sell them if they would say what these animals really are.

Cheers,
Rainer
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Wed 10 Aug - 4:12

Gregoire's words are not for you Rainer, they are for me , and i assume ! Wink
Doubt, right or wrong can be sometimes, also with lot of experiences ! Very Happy
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David Guerra
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera ammodytes male 2011   Sat 13 Aug - 21:56

wow! a lot of answer!
thanks all Wink and thanks to Gregoire Meier for the pics and precisions. Wink
I like the discussions like this with pics, explicaton and differents opinions...
good luck at all
David
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