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 Vipera raddei Photos

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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Vipera raddei Photos   Wed 21 May - 4:23

I picked up these raddei from the same frined I got the V. ammodytes from. These are cb'07's

Female V. raddei




Male V. raddei




The one below supposed to be a Male V. r. kurdistanica. If anyone can tell me if it is or isn't kurdistanica, and why, I'd appreciate it. It has a different head pattern than the first 2, but that's all that really jumps out at me, without doing scale counts.




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Henning Vehmeier
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Wed 21 May - 5:11

Nice Snakes Randy Razz

I love vipera raddei Razz
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Gavin Carpenter
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Wed 21 May - 12:38

Very nice Randy! They just do so well!! Cheeky little buggers though! Always huffing and puffing. Mine did anyway!
Cheers
Gavin
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Randy Ciuros
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Wed 21 May - 14:43

Thanks Gavin yeah, they do huff and puff quite a bit lol
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Markus Gottlieb
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Tue 12 Aug - 18:28

Hi

Nice animals Smile , mine are CB 07 too

If you want to know if male or not, please give us a shot where the "male" and the female are together, and the picture have to be in "bird"- perspective, the males are bigger and have a much bigger head! Most time it's very easy to see it this way.

kurdistanica or not is hard to say, i have 3 (2 girls one brother) and they all look a bit different (scales, coloration, pattern....) and all are kurdistanica's, so if you don't know from where they are you can't really see it (i mean, i wouldn't know a method for, maybe someone else have one)

Greetings
Markus


the 2 girls; you see the different scales and color?
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Mario Schweiger
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Mon 15 Sep - 0:35

Hi,

the 2nd from top is a male, I´m nearly sure!

What´s "kurdistanica"?
I dont believe in this ssp.
There are not the slightest differences to raddei raddei in pholidosis, maybe in color and pattern maybe.
I have checked more than 200 raddei raddei specimens from Armenia and NE Turkey before some years and find a very big variation in color (inverted or not) and pholidosis.

Mario
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Mon 15 Sep - 2:03

Quote :
the 2nd from top is a male, I´m nearly sure!

I must agree, due to tail size and length.
Picture 1 and 2 is the same specimen, right?

Peter

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Brian Petrie
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Mon 29 Mar - 4:36

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but I have recently got back into Montivipera, and I have a pair of raddei raddei, and a pair of raddei kurdistanica. I thought the difference was purely geographical. Also, I think kurdistanica has a darker ground colour, even the lighter kurdistanica look darker than raddei raddei.
All the best,
Brian.
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Mario Schweiger
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Sun 11 Apr - 23:06

as written above: I cant find any difference between this two ssp. I think kurdistanica is a fake. Since the description of that ssp. (it was separated geographically at this time), many connecting populations have been found.


Montivipera raddei raddei from Digor, NE Turkey

How dark kurdistanica will/should be, to be darker than the nominal race (this pic)?

Mario
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Mon 12 Apr - 3:21

I agree with Mario concerning subspecies of M. raddei.

Concerning color as a distinguishing feature: In high mountain areas in Armenia (and elsewhere) you will find that most M. raddei are very dark, I have seen several from there that were black with normal brown to orange pattern. And these were never called "kurdistanica".
Rainer
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Brian Petrie
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera raddei Photos   Wed 14 Apr - 4:30

Thanks for the information, well, I suppose I have a light pair of raddei and a dark pair of raddei Embarassed .
I take it that the proper name is Montivipera raddei and not Montivipera raddei raddei, as there is no sub-species?
Cheers,
Brian.
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