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 Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.

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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 4:24

They are the first snakes out of hibernation. My vipers has about 1 - 1,5 month left.

(Cellphone camera pics)

First a couple of pics on their new terrarium (150x70x75cm):





Here are the beauties. I hope that it is 1.1 but both where sexed as males last year when they where probed. But the one that helped me with probeing said that they wasn't easy sexed.





Regards
Daniel
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Andrew Hacket
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 4:28

My how cellphone camera's have improved Smile

Absolutely fantastic set up, best I have seen.

Thanks for the pics.
Andrew
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 4:38

Andrew Hacket wrote:
My how cellphone camera's have improved Smile

Absolutely fantastic set up, best I have seen.

Thanks for the pics.
Andrew

Thanks, i have tried my best to get this setup as "right" as possible.

The camera in my iPhone 4 is quite good i think, i haven't used it that much. I prefer my old Canon 40D but battery was dead this time Rolling Eyes

Regards
Daniel
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Fabian Dirks
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 5:13

Those are beauties for sure! Cross the fingers for you
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Patrick Vince
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 17:39

Hi, malpolon doesn't need to be probe, especially when sub adult and adult....so i can swear you you have a pair!
Just the color (with adult and even sub adult) are easy to say. The malpolon in the right of the pics is the female (brown color, with black pattern and, the most distinctive: pure white spot on the supralabials and preocular/subocular) the other is, of course the male (no pattern, more olive/light brown) and after a while, if it is a malplon monspessulanus monspessulanus, a dark black saddle will appear.
Your male will grow far more larger than the female (maximum 1.35m for the female) and bigger, believe me.....so be carefull when you'll feed them!
They are very pretty.....
Feel free if you want to know more about them....i am a big fan of the genus since 30 years !!
R.
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Christian Gustavsson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 18:30

Very nice snakes you have there .
Your set up look very nice good work

/Christian
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 22:54

patrick vince wrote:
Hi, malpolon doesn't need to be probe, especially when sub adult and adult....so i can swear you you have a pair!
Just the color (with adult and even sub adult) are easy to say. The malpolon in the right of the pics is the female (brown color, with black pattern and, the most distinctive: pure white spot on the supralabials and preocular/subocular) the other is, of course the male (no pattern, more olive/light brown) and after a while, if it is a malplon monspessulanus monspessulanus, a dark black saddle will appear.
Your male will grow far more larger than the female (maximum 1.35m for the female) and bigger, believe me.....so be carefull when you'll feed them!
They are very pretty.....
Feel free if you want to know more about them....i am a big fan of the genus since 30 years !!
R.

WOW !! Thats fantastic news..... I do think they may be to young to breed this year though.

I think this is fuscus but i'm far from sure.
Do you recommend to feed them separately when the male starts to out grow the female ?

My experience is very limited. I have only had them since young about 45-50cm, this is my second season with them. I think the male is about 120cm and the female is 110cm give or take a couple of cm.

So far they have been very shy when feed. Never seen them eat, food is always gone in the morning after feeding day.

So any info would be of much help.

Regards
Daniel Claesson
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Wed 2 Feb - 22:57

Christian Gustavsson wrote:
Very nice snakes you have there .
Your set up look very nice good work

/Christian

Thnx !

Regards
Daniel
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 1:29

Hello Daniel,

I agree with Patrick in everything he writes. If you look at the part of the tail of the snake in front of the first photo - it has the typical shape of a female´s tail.

Some more information that may make you even happier: At this age and size they may breed this year. I bred fuscus when they were 2 years old.

I suppose that you have M. monsp. monspessulanus. Do you know where they come from (locality)?

Good luck with them,
Rainer
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Patrick Vince
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 1:39

Malpolon female can breed around 60/70 cm SVL (with a total length around 100 cm) and male within 55/60 cm svl (aroud 100- 110 cm in total length). In captivity it is around 3 years old, when well fed...but they always feed well ! Both of your snake seems large enough to breed this year. It will be a good idea to separate them a while, only few weeks, until they resume feeding and you 'll turn your light 12 hours per day, and remember they love light and warm. Your set up looks like well illuminated, and it's a good point.
If you never see them feeding, you 'll better give them mice separately...i remember having very bad surprise some years ago, after a feeding party, where i saw them both taking mice from tong and let them finished, without supervision...big mistake....few hours later i can not find the female because she was in the stomach of the male! It never happend before.....but this day i lost my female.....strangly, It happens more frequently with CB malpolon than with WC one... No
Do you feed them with alive or dead prey ?
R.
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 5:07

Rainer Fesser wrote:
Hello Daniel,

I agree with Patrick in everything he writes. If you look at the part of the tail of the snake in front of the first photo - it has the typical shape of a female´s tail.

Some more information that may make you even happier: At this age and size they may breed this year. I bred fuscus when they were 2 years old.

I suppose that you have M. monsp. monspessulanus. Do you know where they come from (locality)?

Good luck with them,
Rainer


Hi.

Nice to hear that they may be ready to breed already. I thought that they needed at least one more year.

I got these as "babies" from a friend and he only could tell me that he think that the original animals came from the border area of Greece and Turkey.

Regards
Daniel
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 5:19

patrick vince wrote:
Malpolon female can breed around 60/70 cm SVL (with a total length around 100 cm) and male within 55/60 cm svl (aroud 100- 110 cm in total length). In captivity it is around 3 years old, when well fed...but they always feed well ! Both of your snake seems large enough to breed this year. It will be a good idea to separate them a while, only few weeks, until they resume feeding and you 'll turn your light 12 hours per day, and remember they love light and warm. Your set up looks like well illuminated, and it's a good point.
If you never see them feeding, you 'll better give them mice separately...i remember having very bad surprise some years ago, after a feeding party, where i saw them both taking mice from tong and let them finished, without supervision...big mistake....few hours later i can not find the female because she was in the stomach of the male! It never happend before.....but this day i lost my female.....strangly, It happens more frequently with CB malpolon than with WC one... No
Do you feed them with alive or dead prey ?
R.

Ok then they should be of the right size and age. The have been separated when hibernated since early November. I haven't tried to feed them yet, will wait a week more since they haven't been up more than a couple of days.

Now i have the main light on for about 8 hours and the basking spot is on only for 2 hours, 1 hour around 12 and the second hour around 15. Temps are 18 degree Celsius at the cool side and 23 degree Celsius at the hot side when basking lamp is of. Right under the basking spot it will get up to 44-45 degree Celsius. And about 15cm from the middle of basking spot it is around 35 degree Celsius.

Lightning is four 36watt 6500Kelvin tubes and basking lamp is a 150w PAR38 halogen lamp. I may switch to a 75w PAR30 halogen lamp if temps go to hot when it starts to go warmer outside. Terrarium is in my basement in a new room so i don't know how hot it will be in summer.

Sorry to here about the female, i have never had any loss of snake that have been eaten by another cagemate yet. (Cross fingers and toes).

Both eat prekilled full grown mice. I have started to breed rats this year so that i have bigger food for these guys.

Regards
Daniel
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 6:50

Hello Daniel,

when they come out of hibernation in nature they are out in warm sunlight for 5-7 hours on nice days. I think you can give them more time for basking, range of temperature is ok.

Regards,
Rainer
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Patrick Vince
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 18:03

Rainer Fesser wrote:
Hello Daniel,

when they come out of hibernation in nature they are out in warm sunlight for 5-7 hours on nice days. I think you can give them more time for basking, range of temperature is ok.

Regards,
Rainer
Rainer is wright, give them more time to bask, and you will see they will use it!! Light, bright light is the trigger to keep them healthy, and they begin to feed again with day (light and warm) lengthening (around 2 to 3 weeks).
Do you feed them dead or live mice?
R.
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Patrick Vince
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Thu 3 Feb - 18:05

Oupps forget about my question (live or dead...) scratch
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Fri 4 Feb - 0:49

Thanks for all good advices both of you (Rainer and Patrick).

I will give them more basking time from tomorrow and forward.

Regards
Daniel
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Fri 15 Apr - 23:26

Some news..

I haven't seen any mating behavior at all. But who knows what is happening when i'm at work ;-)

Female have put on some weight and she may be with eggs. At least se is bigger than before and the amount of food she have eaten isn't that much and should not be visible as much.

I shall "feel" her this weekend and hop that i can feel some eggs in here. I will try to upload a picture at the same time.

Shall i remove the male from the cage if she is with eggs ? or just put in a "deposit box" for her to lay her eggs in ? (if she decided to use it of course)

Best Regards
Daniel
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Fabian Dirks
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Sat 16 Apr - 0:01

And if you can pass a pair to me , you can make me happy ,too . Cross the fingers
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Israel M. Sánchez
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Sat 16 Apr - 0:20

Fabian Dirks wrote:
And if you can pass a pair to me , you can make me happy ,too . Cross the fingers

+1

Do you know the locality?

Once I was 'attacked' by a large male here (countryside north of Madrid) which I bothered unintentionally. Very funny, he mimicked a cobra, rearing the upper part of the body, hissed very loudly and then fled at an impressive speed. Have you seen them speeding with the body almost straight? They are very nice snakes.

And of course, the cage decoration is awesome...

Regards.
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Sat 16 Apr - 0:29

@Fabian: Of course if all goes well.

@Israel: No not the exact, se above in this thread for more info. Yes i have seen them flatten the neck and his like mad. It's the male that has the most attitude.

Regards
Daniel
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Rainer Fesser
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Sat 16 Apr - 5:40

Hello Daniel,

when I bred my Malpolon, I kept them together all the time. There never was a problem with the males when the females layed their eggs.

You should be able to feel and count the eggs if she has any.

If you offer a suitable box for egg-laying, she will use it.

Good luck,
Rainer.
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Sat 16 Apr - 6:44

@Rainer: Thanks for your advice, it is very much appriciated. As this is first time for me with Malpolon i'm all ears.

Regards
Daniel
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Gustav Eloy
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Fri 29 Apr - 4:43

wowow man they are fantastic, the terrarium is great, congrats
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Gustav Eloy
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Fri 29 Apr - 4:43

wowow man they are fantastic, the terrarium is great, congrats
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Patrick Vince
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PostSubject: Re: Malpolon monspessulanus ssp.   Fri 29 Apr - 19:03

Rainer is wright, no problems with yours male, he will not eat the eggs !
Put a egg laying box in the cage is far better, if you don't watch them every day.
Sometimes i have found eggs, the other day of laying, and incubate them with no problem...but the box is always a must!
R.
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