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 Vipera palaestinae....

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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Vipera palaestinae....   Sat 13 Nov - 5:08

Hope you like it......

one of my adult male...:


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Joni hottinen
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Sat 13 Nov - 15:29

you have gathered quite nice collection Mr. Pastore!
please post more photos of your animals Smile
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Sat 13 Nov - 22:01

Joni hottinen wrote:
you have gathered quite nice collection Mr. Pastore!
please post more photos of your animals Smile

Yes.... Embarassed After that i had all my autorisations, i began to pickup all the snakes who where dispatch in some several friends...... Very Happy
Now, they are here, in my home !!!! Very Happy
I post the pics progressively........ Laughing
And thanks for your comment !
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Marthinus C. Harmse
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Sat 13 Nov - 22:39

Fantastic species! One of favourites. If you ever breed them then please keep me in mind. Marthinus.
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Sun 14 Nov - 2:26

Marthinus C. Harmse wrote:
Fantastic species! One of favourites. If you ever breed them then please keep me in mind. Marthinus.

Next year !! Laughing
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Brian Petrie
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 3:47

Fantastic snake Jean-henri, I have just bought a pair of babies from Hamm, they are superb animals. They are now in the genus Daboia.
Take care,
Brian.
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Pascal Kamp
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 4:45

Great animal ! Cool Definitely a Vipera species I have to get once...
I remember the palaestinae's from Hamm. There were striped individuals as well, I thought ?

Do you have a full-body shot Jean ? The front part looks very orange... Cool
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 17:16

Brian Petrie wrote:
Fantastic snake Jean-henri, I have just bought a pair of babies from Hamm, they are superb animals. They are now in the genus Daboia.
Take care,
Brian.

Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus.......
It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae.... Wink

Ok Pascal as soon as possible, i will take a complete pic, of course. Very Happy
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Peter Schulze Niehoff
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 17:50

jean-henri pastore wrote:
Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus.......
It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae.... Wink


Yes, Jean, you're right, so far. But as their so called next relative, Vipera xanthina, recently was put into Montivipera, I'm sure also the Palaestine Viper will not be in Vipera til the end of time ...

Best regards

Peter
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 18:08

Peter Schulze Niehoff wrote:
jean-henri pastore wrote:
Sorry but until today, there are not classed in Daboia but in Vipera Genus.......
It's definitively Vipera Palaestinae.... Wink


Yes, Jean, you're right, so far. But as their so called next relative, Vipera xanthina, recently was put into Montivipera, I'm sure also the Palaestine Viper will not be in Vipera til the end of time ...

Best regards

Peter

I'm also agree with you Peter,
Palestine viper will be reclassed sometimes in future.....
Just for the moment she still in Vipera genus.
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 18:51

Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?

In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.

Please do correct me if i'm wrong.

Regards
Daniel
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 19:41

Daniel Claesson wrote:
Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?

In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.

Please do correct me if i'm wrong.

Regards
Daniel

No problem Daniel.
For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time.
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Daniel Claesson
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Mon 15 Nov - 20:47

jean-henri pastore wrote:
Daniel Claesson wrote:
Isn't Palaestine Viper in the Genus Daboia know ? or has that changed recently ?

In Tony Phelps' "Old World Vipers" the are in Genus Daboia at least.

Please do correct me if i'm wrong.

Regards
Daniel

No problem Daniel.
For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time.

Thanx !

I will update my signs on the terrarium :-)

Regards
Daniel
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Brian Petrie
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 17 Nov - 5:04

Hi Jean-henri,
It is only in the old litreture that I can find it termed Vipera, in all my new references it is classed as Daboia, do you know of recent work that re-classifies them as Vipera?
All the best,
Brian.
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Pascal Kamp
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 17 Nov - 5:23

I'm not really into taxonomy, but I think this species started of as Vipera, in the 80's and 90 's (?) switched to Daboia and now the current status is Vipera again...
Someone please correct me If I'm wrong. Rolling Eyes
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 17 Nov - 7:04

Pascal Kamp wrote:
I'm not really into taxonomy, but I think this species started of as Vipera, in the 80's and 90 's (?) switched to Daboia and now the current status is Vipera again...
Someone please correct me If I'm wrong. Rolling Eyes

Now, you are right Pascal. Wink
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Alexandru Strugariu
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 17 Nov - 9:14

Very beautiful snake ! Do you have a nice female for him and are you planning to breed them ?

Quote :
For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time

Recent and slightly less recent molecular data (I'm not familiar with any morphological studies but there probably are some) have shown that "Vipera palaestinae" as well as "Macrovipera mauritanica" and "Macrovipera deserti" are sister taxa to Daboia russelii and D. siamensis and, as such, should be included in the genus Daboia. Thus, Daboia palaestinae would be the correct classification, at least according to currently available evidence. Just because the name "Vipera palaestinae" is written in a local law text does not mean it is a scientifically correct classification Smile

Here is a link to the most recent paper of which I am aware in which the position of palaestinae is discussed:
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications/2008_Vipers_MPE.pdf
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 17 Nov - 21:41

Alexandru Strugariu wrote:
Very beautiful snake ! Do you have a nice female for him and are you planning to breed them ?

Quote :
For the moment, it's Vipera Palaestinae, but some people like Tony Phelps or some "old" people continu to class this species like Daboia.
But the texts of laws say: Vipera Palaestinae.
So, Vipera Palaestinae is the right term at this time

Recent and slightly less recent molecular data (I'm not familiar with any morphological studies but there probably are some) have shown that "Vipera palaestinae" as well as "Macrovipera mauritanica" and "Macrovipera deserti" are sister taxa to Daboia russelii and D. siamensis and, as such, should be included in the genus Daboia. Thus, Daboia palaestinae would be the correct classification, at least according to currently available evidence. Just because the name "Vipera palaestinae" is written in a local law text does not mean it is a scientifically correct classification Smile

Here is a link to the most recent paper of which I am aware in which the position of palaestinae is discussed:
http://www.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/Publications/2008_Vipers_MPE.pdf

I know this paper Alexandru, most of things are very interesting, and it's not wrong to class Palaestinae in Macrovipera Subgenus !!!
And yes, I have 2.1 breeding trio .
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Thu 18 Nov - 2:43

Pascal Kamp wrote:
Great animal ! Cool Definitely a Vipera species I have to get once...
I remember the palaestinae's from Hamm. There were striped individuals as well, I thought ?

Do you have a full-body shot Jean ? The front part looks very orange... Cool

hope it will be ok.....:



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Pascal Kamp
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Thu 18 Nov - 7:17

Like I said: I'm not into taxonomy... When it comes to molecular data and DNA, you've beaten me. Neutral
@Jean: more then ok ! Start breeding them now... Wink Cool Very Happy
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Thu 18 Nov - 17:09

Laughing Laughing Laughing
I'm going to pass them in 12 degres next week while 3 months, and hop !! Laughing
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Brian Petrie
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Fri 19 Nov - 6:02

Hi Alexandru,
Thanks for posting that paper, that is the one I took my information from.
Cheers,
Brian.
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 2 Mar - 1:28

Palaestinae are mated yesterday evening.........But i can't do some pics..... Very Happy
So, i have to wait....
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Peter van Issem
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 2 Mar - 1:49

Fingercrossing for your succes Jean-Henry! I´ve never breed this species. My ones mate and lay eggs several times... But without anny good result. Hope you get it!
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jean-henri pastore
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PostSubject: Re: Vipera palaestinae....   Wed 2 Mar - 2:04

We will see Peter......i finger cross also.... Wink
You remember when the female lay eggs after mating?
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