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 Scientific and common names

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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 22:37

Did you ever get a "bitie" from your "annies" or "snouties"?

As i stated before elsewhere - please do not use these infantile belittlements for potentially dangerous and deadly animals.
This is definitely not the way to get a serious reputation in public, wether for the commuity here nor for single keepers.
Thank you!

Full of care i have to see that a slow, but increasing loss of seriousity takes place here - i won't accept that further on - wether as an active member nor as an admin.

Peter

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Last edited by Peter Zürcher on Fri 27 Aug - 22:18; edited 1 time in total
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Richard Mastenbroek
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 23:05

Peter Zürcher wrote:
Did you ever get a "bitie" from your "annies" or "snouties"?

As i stated before elsewhere - please do not use these infantile delittlements for potentially dangerous and deadly animals.
This is definitely not the way to get a serious reputation in public, wether for the commuity here nor for single keepers.
Thank you!

Full of care i have to see that a slow, but increasing loss of seriousity takes place here - i won't accept that further on - wether as an active member nor as an admin.

Peter

Peter,

I have been bit bij Naja annulifera 10 years ago it was a horrible experience and happend when she twisted when treated on a eye problem so on off her fangs stuck in my rigth hand tumb. I got invenomted and it was a horrible expierience nothing to be proud on but these things can happen and is always a mistake from the keeper not the snake.

I have a serious reputation among venomouskeepers around the globe as I said before many feel very safe with me handling snakes.
Just because I got nailed 10 years ago you can not say I have a loss of seriousity.

I think you want to start your personal war against me! As I said before in PM that you never responde on! That I think its a shame we started of on the wrong foot.

But Peter I will not work with you in your war. I don't mind I only think its a shame

with kind regards

Richard Mastenbroek
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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 23:11

Peter Zürcher wrote:
Did you ever get a "bitie" from your "annies" or "snouties"?

As i stated before elsewhere - please do not use these infantile delittlements for potentially dangerous and deadly animals.
This is definitely not the way to get a serious reputation in public, wether for the commuity here nor for single keepers.
Thank you!

Full of care i have to see that a slow, but increasing loss of seriousity takes place here - i won't accept that further on - wether as an active member nor as an admin.

Peter
Thank you for this, Mr. Zurcher; and well said, too. I'm certain that the majority of serious, legitimate keepers here are in complete agreement with this view. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 23:15

Come on guys....
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 23:24

did i miss something here ?

seems like it .

ok but maybe mr zürcher or mr davidson would like to explain whats wrong with this post ?

the only thing i see going here is two people posting there personal animosity against another person in an open forum wich sucks really , excuse my laungauge .

seeing one of these persons being admin in here makes it even worse in my eyes

and for smeone to judge the seriousness of a venemous keeper , maybe a person getting bitien by a diamond back cause of feeding it wiht his bare hand should do such things and for surenot judge others

thats my two cents
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Björn Nilsson
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Thu 26 Aug - 23:36

Stephan Niemann wrote:
did i miss something here ?

seems like it .

ok but maybe mr zürcher or mr davidson would like to explain whats wrong with this post ?

the only thing i see going here is two people posting there personal animosity against another person in an open forum wich sucks really , excuse my laungauge .

seeing one of these persons being admin in here makes it even worse in my eyes

and for smeone to judge the seriousness of a venemous keeper , maybe a person getting bitien by a diamond back cause of feeding it wiht his bare hand should do such things and for surenot judge others

thats my two cents

Peter minds the title "Some different Snouties (Naja annulifera) I keep", Snouties being a common term.
So you should not write diamond back either Wink Rolling Eyes

I hate common names usually, but accept some like cornsnake and such. Naja annulifera is usually called Snouties and Richard does write the right name after in brackets, therefor at least I dont see a problem.

Richard>> Nice snakes Smile you should get a videocamera and show us how he catch the chicken!
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 6:05

I agree to Mr. Zürcher and Mr. Davidson.
"Newbies" as me read this and tend to use it too. The result: an unscientific slang is creeping into a serious hobby.
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Bostjan Kraner
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 6:37

Guenter Leitenbauer wrote:
I agree to Mr. Zürcher and Mr. Davidson.
"Newbies" as me read this and tend to use it too. The result: an unscientific slang is creeping into a serious hobby.

I agree to. Maybe could be written Snouted Cobras instead Naja annulifera for species commonly know. I sometimes write for example Gabon Adder or Puffadder. But when conserning snakes poorly known is better to use scientific names. Also if the species is very scarce and sources unavailable.

There are clear rules about nicknames so the rule about 'nicknames' for snakes should apply as well.

Regards: BKK
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 15:35

Quote :
Maybe could be written Snouted Cobras instead Naja annulifera for species commonly know.

Are you for real?
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Anze Gratzer
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 17:37

Jesus guys! Please ... dont make a big deal over nothing. Forum reputiation will go down not because of "Snouties" but because of complications about that.

Remember: No society collapsed because of "crime". All of them collapsed because of autorithy. Please think about it.
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Michael Jonasson
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 19:40

I cant see the big problem here, Richard wrote both the popular name "snouties" and the scientific name, no way that it could be misunderstod.
Arguments over small stuff like this is what makes an bad environment on forums, not people using popular names for their snakes.

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Jon Davidson
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 21:01

Bostjan Kraner wrote:




There are clear rules about nicknames so the rule about 'nicknames' for snakes should apply as well.

Regards: BKK
I agree; and in my view, this is a good idea for the site. I see nothing wrong with maintaining a standard for Venomland on this question, as it may help to distinguish this site from the hundreds of other internet pet reptile keeping forums where the terms: 'snouties', 'puffies' and 'gabbys', etc. have become part of the common pet reptile keeping vernacular. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Peter Zürcher
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PostSubject: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 21:59

Quote :
the popular name "snouties"
The common name for Naja annulifera is not "snouties", but Snouted Cobra.
"Snouties, or "annies" (has been used in this thread too) are belittlements which do not judge potentially dangerous or even deadly creatures the way they should be judged by people interested in a serious and responsible reputation in public.

Shouldn't we all work on that here?

As it has been stated elsewhere on this board by Mario Lutz, we don't want to see here common names at all (at most in combination with scientific names), it's needless to discuss the sense (or nonsense!) of belittlements.
Just avoid to use'em here!

@Richard
I did not know about your annulifera bite before i hit the nail coincidentally - therefore my posting wasn't a personal attack. I don't use personal bite statistics from whom ever to judge the seriousness of people or the reliability of their postings. @Stephan Niemann: would be nice if you learn to see it the same way!

Best regards
Peter

Thread has been splitted and separated from Richards picture-thread.




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Last edited by Peter Zürcher on Sat 28 Aug - 0:58; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 22:20

About Common names and scientific names I can be short I prefer to see scientific names always!
But when I see scientific name the are mostly typed on a normal way like Crotalus or even worse crotalus. SO if we are going to talk about names with snakes, topics and pictures I suggest to make it a rule rather than a suggestion but do it correct not Crotalus Atrox but Crotalus atrox.

Snouties, Snouted Cobra, Spudnose cobra, Banded Egyptian cobra al those common names are used. It confushed me as well.

So I suggest to make it rule to use on a correct way the scientific name. Than we do not have mud contest like this anymore.

You guys want a serious forum please make it into a real serious semi scientific forum as I understand you would like see it.

A picture of my male Naja annulifera banded phase ;-)



With Kind Regards

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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:05

Hi,

it looks like Peter has something against minimizing names.

But who says that the "suffix" -ies is automatically associated to "cut-ies"?

If i say Phonies, Phonys etc. for Phoneutria there is absolutely no scence of belittlement in it.

To make it understandable:

"All of my Phonies will give you a hell of a painful experience if they tag you...."

Does this sounds like downplaying?
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:11

Why should it matter what one refers to their snakes as if the scientific name is still there? Common names vary from region to region and many regions have their own slang for common names as well, the only thing that is universal is the scientific name.
Would it also be belittling to name a dangerous animals? Does that make it seem to personalized to really be respected the way I should? I don't believe so...
I am not understanding the problem here... I have always used slang names for most animals, not just venomous.... hoggies for hognose snakes (Heterodon sp.), gabby's for gaboon vipers (Bitis gabonica)... is that any different that saying rhino for a rhinocerous viper (Bitis nasicornis)? Or GTP for green tree python (Morelia viridis)? It's simply a shortening of the name.
If it is really an issue than I suppose a scientific name should be required for every post.
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:20

Roland Lautensack wrote:
Hi,

it looks like Peter has something against minimizing names.

But who says that the "suffix" -ies is automatically associated to "cut-ies"?

If i say Phonies, Phonys etc. for Phoneutria there is absolutely no scence of belittlement in it.

To make it understandable:

"All of my Phonies will give you a hell of a painful experience if they tag you...."

Does this sounds like downplaying?
Yes, it does to me; and I would expect that whatever it is that you are trying to communicate when using terms such as: 'phonies' or 'phonys' is not understandable to the majority of users on this site, just as I would expect that there are likely dozens of pet arachnid keeping forums where such terminology would be acceptable. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:30

Jessica Torres wrote:

I am not understanding the problem here... I have always used slang names for most animals, not just venomous.... hoggies for hognose snakes (Heterodon sp.), gabby's for gaboon vipers (Bitis gabonica)...
That could be because you don't have the background, experience or the years of commitment to the study of venomous snakes as many of the members who participate on Venomland do. There are hundreds of other pet reptile keeping sites on the internet where such terminology is acceptable, but my hope is that this site remains one where that commitment of many years of study and experience will be respected and reflected by the language and terminologies that are used. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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Martin Romanov
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:46

I'm really annoyed when I see common names because most times I don't know which snake the person is talking about. I also get annoyed when I see that someone wrote the species with a capital letter. E.g. Vipera Berus.


Last edited by Martin Romanov on Fri 27 Aug - 23:50; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Fri 27 Aug - 23:49

Quote :
That could be because you don't have the background, experience or the years of commitment to the study of venomous snakes as many of the members who participate on Venomland do.

pfff..... Study of venomous snakes.... Show us scientific Papers or be quiet.

Pet arachnids... What a word. There exist no pet arachnid. Would it mean a domesticateable spider. But just to show that the glorious venomland ist the Nr.1 venomous snakes keeper Forum and all others are just petkeeperboards it does its job..

What stands venomland for? I just see pictures over pictures all over the Forum.

Phonies... its like calling cryptelytrops purpureomaculatus "purps". If you show me one "normal" human being that talks about this species and spells the full scientific name everytime I`ll be really impressed.

And "downplaying" someones expertise just by the way he call his snakes is dilettantism.

There is no cutie factor in the "name" Snouthies or Phonies. Its a plural diminutive. Not a making it sound like cutie.
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Sat 28 Aug - 0:20

Roland Lautensack wrote:


pfff..... Study of venomous snakes.... Show us scientific Papers or be quiet.

Pet arachnids... What a word. There exist no pet arachnid. Would it mean a domesticateable spider. But just to show that the glorious venomland ist the Nr.1 venomous snakes keeper Forum and all others are just petkeeperboards it does its job..

What stands venomland for? I just see pictures over pictures all over the Forum.

Phonies... its like calling cryptelytrops purpureomaculatus "purps". If you show me one "normal" human being that talks about this species and spells the full scientific name everytime I`ll be really impressed.

And "downplaying" someones expertise just by the way he call his snakes is dilettantism.

There is no cutie factor in the "name" Snouthies or Phonies. Its a plural diminutive. Not a making it sound like cutie.
Please note, Mr. Lautensack, that the only mention of 'scientific papers' so far in this Thread has been by yourself... Your disparaging inference about this site reveals something important about your attitude and perspective in this discussion. Sincerely, Jon Davidson .
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Sat 28 Aug - 1:36

Hi,

wrong. In my opinion this board is one of the good boards. But to say someone who don`t use the correct nomenklatura every time should go to one of the "pet keeper boards" is disparaging his experiences and knowledge.

I use scientific names most of the time. Mostly.

Someone who says that the most Keeper here "study" their snakes should have some references like publications.

"Study Snake behavior" is something every snake keeper does an nothing noteworthy.

BTW: What about Al Goritz? One of the breeders I would call professional. He almost always uses personalized Trivialnames. Does this say something about his expertise?

I met much so called expierenced keepers which know every scientific name and how species behave and how to keep em, but nothing more.





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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Sat 28 Aug - 1:58

Roland Lautensack wrote:
Hi,

wrong. In my opinion this board is one of the good boards. But to say someone who don`t use the correct nomenklatura every time should go to one of the "pet keeper boards" is disparaging his experiences and knowledge.

I use scientific names most of the time. Mostly.

Someone who says that the most Keeper here "study" their snakes should have some references like publications.

"Study Snake behavior" is something every snake keeper does an nothing noteworthy.

BTW: What about Al Goritz? One of the breeders I would call professional. He almost always uses personalized Trivialnames. Does this say something about his expertise?

I met much so called expierenced keepers which know every scientific name and how species behave and how to keep em, but nothing more.






First of all it's Coritz. I have the impression that he says both the common and the scientific on his videos. But I think he prefers the scientific names.
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Sat 28 Aug - 2:08

Roland Lautensack wrote:
Hi,
In my opinion this board is one of the good boards. But to say someone who don`t use the correct nomenklatura every time should go to one of the "pet keeper boards" is disparaging his experiences and knowledge.

Good to hear you offer a clarification on your feelings about this site, Mr. Lautensack. By the way, can you point out for us exactly where anyone in this discussion said that an individual not using the correct nomenclature here on Venomland should go to a 'pet keeper board'? Sincerrely, Jon Davidson .
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PostSubject: Re: Scientific and common names   Sat 28 Aug - 2:10

Gabby, Mr Green, Purps, MrBrown, MrSniffels, Boomer, FingerRotters, PogoSticks,
just a few.

use the scientific name for the viewiers and the trivials for him self. Thats what my impression is. And theres nothing wrong with that. Just a bit more personal. And yes, he just use trivials for his "special snakes".

Quote :
just as I would expect that there are likely dozens of pet arachnid keeping forums where such terminology would be acceptable.

Maybe I interpreted too much into this but for a german it surely can interpreted like "trivial names are not welcome here, use one of the other boards".

Martin
Do you have the permition to use that picture of the c.insularis or is this your snake? Cool
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