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 vipera berus babies eating.

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PostSubject: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 7 Sep - 0:13

according to all literature vipera berus berus are meant to be quite difficult to get feeding in captivity.

one thing i have noticed is that if you ask them nicely, they usually dont have a problem listening to instructions.

male

female
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Graeme Skinner
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 7 Sep - 3:44

Chris,

nice to see images of berus neonates eating
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 7 Sep - 3:58

Nice little guys. Do you know the locality?
How do you keep them?

RGDS Fabian
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 7 Sep - 4:36

kent uk locality.

the parents mated the 7,8,9 of march and the babies were born the 14th of july.

i keep them simply, paper towels as substrate and a water bowl.

ambient temperature of 83.

6 of the 10 babies strike feed, the rest eat when food is left overnight.

they have been a piece of cake thus far.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 7 Sep - 14:48

Thats nice. In Finland couple of guys have had luck with V. berus as well and usually they have also eaten crickets and frogs which is their natural diet.
Only thing which seems quite daring to me is the ambient temp of 28'c.. I would lower the temps at night.

But good luck with the little snakes!

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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 8 Sep - 4:05

the temperature drops to about 70 at night.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 8 Sep - 15:40

armand belier wrote:
the babies were born the 14th of july

Bonjour Madames et Monsieurs! Smile
Born on the French Liberation Day.

Congratulations to Your success and good luck with those babies.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Fri 11 Sep - 6:46

Never had a problem feeding young berus. Adults though, theres a challenge.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Sat 12 Sep - 3:38

my adults ate the day i received them oddly enough.

they have been nonproblematic from the start.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Mon 14 Sep - 4:35

Have you seen the views for this thread? Seems like many people want to get Berus feeding Rolling Eyes

Seriously though, if they are not captive bred and you are out there wanting your captured Berus to feed..... let it go. You have not a hope in Hell and it will die.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 15 Sep - 2:31

armand belier wrote:
my adults ate the day i received them oddly enough.

they have been nonproblematic from the start.

Chris

were your adults captive bred or wild caught?

I've only ever heard of wild ones refusing and as Jason has stated they seem to starve to death if you dont let them go.

Hints and tips would help.

Graeme
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 15 Sep - 5:01

mine were wild caught originally.

i am fairly certain most of the advice that is commonly available and accepted on the keeping of vipera berus is wrong which seems to be the problem.

both of my adults took food immediately (second day i had them) and a couple of the babies were slow at first but now most a strike feeding which is a bit odd to say the least.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 15 Sep - 6:10

armand belier wrote:
mine were wild caught originally.

i am fairly certain most of the advice that is commonly available and accepted on the keeping of vipera berus is wrong which seems to be the problem.

both of my adults took food immediately (second day i had them) and a couple of the babies were slow at first but now most a strike feeding which is a bit odd to say the least.

So where are people going wrong in captive husbandry?
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 15 Sep - 19:33

Years ago I used to study berus in captivity and only ever had one adult female out of about 50 kept for short periods of around 10 - 14 days, feed. After twice feeding, she refused completely after that. Interestingly though a friend in Germany has cb berus and never had a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Tue 15 Sep - 21:38

I just noticed that my last post may have seemed a bit big headed.

I wasn't saying that people who DO give advice don't know what they are talking about.

it may come down to keepers.

one thing I am certain it isn't is the snakes themselves.

out of the 12 that I have, I haven't had any note worthy problems.

I have discussed with a few different people how exactly I keep my berus and have been told by most that I am doing things incorrectly.

I think my results speak for themselves though.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 4:16

It didn't come across as big headed at all, so no worries. I only had success with babies or sub adults.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 4:28

Hello,

back in the 70ties I had wild caught V. berus from several different locations in Austria.
From 1 location (in the eastern Alps) none of the V. berus would eat "normal" mice (Mus musculus), rats or Natal rats.. Only if you offered Microtus arvalis, Microtus agrestris or other species of small rodents you could find in their habitat. From some other locations some took "normal" mice, most of them not, from 2 locations all fed on Mus musculus from the beginning and also the babies caused no problems. These 2 locations where at relatively low altitude for Austrian V. berus (ca 600-800m), all others were from mountainous to sub-alpine (up to almost 2000m) habitat.

Maybe this can explain some of the differences you found in feeding - non - feeding V. berus. In wc. specimens it might just depend on where they came from.
Rainer
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 4:31

Sorry,
I forgot to complete the following sentence in my previous post: Only if you offered Microtus arvalis, Microtus agrestris or other species of small rodents you could find in their habitat, they would eat.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 5:10

it is a thought, but to be honest i wouldnt think it should make a whole lot of difference.

although there might be some climate difference and possible barometric pressure differences their food would very similar.

a lot of people say they are strict frog eaters, and problem feeders can be tricked with scented mice.

i havent had the need to try that yet.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 16:54

Interesting to read that yours eat that well. Last year i lost 22 CB babies that never feed on their own.


Regards
Daniel
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 18:28

@ all
Have you caged them outdoors the house, or inside?
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 18:41

Fabian Dirks wrote:
@ all
Have you caged them outdoors the house, or inside?

I caged mine inside.

Regards
Daniel
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 20:47

Hello Armand,

the difference is not the climate or the barometric pressure of course though the climate that this species is adapted to is an important factor for their husbandry.
We (several researchers from the university of Vienna, including zoologists, botanists with different specialisation) made a research about several ecosystems in Eastern Austria. V. berus from places where you could find Mus musculus or closely related rodent species usually ate "normal" mice from the beginning. Those from places without these mice almost never did. There was also a significant difference in population-density of frogs (mainly Rana arvalis), maybe this resulted in a difference in adaptation to different food in the babies. But we did neither have the time nor the money to find this out properly.

As your´s feed well on mice, you can call yourself happy and I wish you all the best with them.
Concluding from the V. berus in our program (and also in a project that I later did with V. berus bosniensis), I would say that you can only keep them alive for a long time and breed them if you offer them really cool nights and a long cool to cold period for hibernation.

Best regards,
Rainer
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 21:05

Quote :
I would say that you can only keep them alive for a long time and breed them if you offer them really cool nights and a long cool to cold period for hibernation.

That is the point I asked for. There is an article in german literature available, which describes the differences between outdoor and inside caging of V. berus berus. The conclusion was that the litters of the outdoors was in better condition, even some of the inside born litters was deformated. The author had never problems with feeding mice.
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PostSubject: Re: vipera berus babies eating.   Wed 16 Sep - 22:16

A friend of mine breeds them in the UK every year, every baby has to be assisted for a period of several months, they never take as babies, but all feed well as they mature.

Never known problems with adults, so long as they are not fresh wild caught, which is what most people do to harvest or "farm" them and allow the gravid females to drop - I strongly disagree with this, as we all know they are on the decline and we need to protect them.
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